Leah: [00:00:00] I don’t know if there’s one of us out there who hasn’t asked themselves, why did I just lose my temper so fast? Or why did I overreact? Or, why can’t I calm down about this? I shouldn’t be this upset. Or, how do I keep my cool with my kids, or my spouse, or my coworkers? Or why do these little things bother me so much?

And what we’re really asking is how do I control my emotions and my reactions? How do I go from shutting down or going numb or exploding to some. Other reaction that we can feel good about, that we don’t end up mad at ourselves for. So if you’ve ever thought, how can I stop stressing about things out of my control, or is it even possible to change how emotional I am, or why do I [00:01:00] do this?

This all comes down to emotional regulation, and I wanted to start with those questions because my guest today is Dr. Amy Moore. She studies emotional regulation. She studies this within Neurodivergency. She studies it, within children and adults. And she even is, getting ready to have her book come out that is, around this idea of emotional regulation.

And when we hear emotional regulation, we’re like, yeah, okay. But I wanted to take that down into what does that actually mean? In our real lives, and it means these kind of questions that I introduced as we started this conversation. So today we’re going to talk to Dr. Amy Moore, and I’m gonna share with you, now that I asked some really hard questions, I question some of the frameworks, some of the ideas that I have heard so many times that [00:02:00] I.

I don’t know if I agree with, and, and you’ll hear me say, I am completely open to you changing my mind, but why do we say that this is acceptable or that this is the way to handle things? And, and we just have this really amazing conversation. She’s incredible. She has her own incredible podcast called Brainy Moms, and I’ve been on it like three times and every time I have so much fun.

Love talking with her. I learn so much and I love her perspective, her positivity, and she’s clearly brilliant. And so to have her on the podcast finally and to get to really talk about. How do we help our kids and how do we help ourselves to better regulate the emotions that we feel, the daily experiences that we encounter?

And this really comes down to probably the difference between reacting and responding. So we’re gonna talk about where. Where this comes from, [00:03:00] we’re gonna talk about the science. We’re gonna talk about where we can start, what we can do, both for our kids and for ourselves. So if you’ve ever felt like it’s hard to control how you feel, how you react, you’re not alone.

This is such a normal thing that I think we can all relate to. And here’s why it’s so hard because. Stress does shrink our bandwidth and old patterns do run deep and emotions. We feel them and sometimes we’re not happy with how that displays and we need to practice. And it can be really hard to practice when you’re not even sure where to start.

And so that’s what we’re gonna get into in this. Two part conversation with Dr. Amy Moore. So buckle up, put on those AirPods, go for a walk or enjoy some tea. Or while you’re running your errands, let’s jump into a concept and idea that [00:04:00] can truly help strengthen our relationships, help us feel more balance in our emotions, and help us to give our kids the tools to do the same thing.

All right, we’re jumping in to my interview with Dr. Amy Moore.

 Dr. Amy Moore, I am so excited that you are joining me on Balancing Busy. It’s been so fun to be on your podcast. Now I get to have you with me and I’m excited to have this conversation about emotional regulation, which is something that you have studied so deeply. So can you just kinda start by first introducing yourself and let everybody know kind of your story, your background?

Amy: , So I am a cognitive psychologist and a child development specialist and a parent educator. And so that’s what I’ve really devoted my 30 plus year career to, is supporting [00:05:00] children, and families with emotion dysregulation and learning struggles all at the same time.

I’m also a clinical researcher. And so I spend part of my week doing neuroplasticity, research because that’s part of the puzzle, is making sure that our cognitive skills are strong enough to then support our emotions. 

Leah: I’m excited to have this conversation and talk about both us as the parent, but also for our children’s sake, right?

Because we can see it in both places. We see it with our kids when maybe the emotions or the disruptions, feel too big for the situation or it’s causing a lot of havoc in the home or in the classroom, or just for them in their life. But we also see it in ourselves when we think, oh, why did I just lose my temper again?

Or Why, why do I let that upset me so much? Why do I hold onto it for so long? Or, um, you know, when we feel like we’re overreacting, or just all those times when. [00:06:00] You think, I don’t think that was maybe the appropriate emotional response for what just happened, right? Yeah. And that’s real. Like, that is true.

I, I will raise my hand and be like, yes, I have absolutely had those moments. And so let’s, let’s kind of start, um, well where should we start? Should we start with kids? Should we start with parents? 

Amy: Um, you know, a brain is a brain is a brain. So perfect. Yeah. So wherever you wanna start. 

Leah: Okay. I think, I think I wanna start with kids.

’cause I think a lot of parents listening are like, oh my gosh, yes. Please help me with, with my kiddo. Yeah. But I don’t want to miss the opportunity to talk about us too, because obviously feelings that feel too big for a situation or explosive reactions, whatever it might be, can cause a lot of harm and pain.

For ourselves, for our families, for relationships, all the kinds of things. So, yeah, sure. So let’s start with with [00:07:00] kids and kind of talk me through. Where a, a parent sees their child and says, we have got some giant emotions. Right? Like, there’s a lot going here, and they don’t seem to be able to regulate their feelings the way that I think they should.

Right? I mean, let’s just get down to it, that that’s what’s coming across. Sure. Where do we start? 

Amy: Yeah. Um, so first we have to start with managing our own expectations. So children aren’t born with the ability to manage their emotions or regulate their emotions, right? They’re having these big feelings, but they don’t know what to do with them.

And, you know, we know that a lot of the way that they learn what to do with them is by watching their parents. How do their parents handle disappointment and frustration and anger and sadness, and the reality is. We mess it up all the time. And so when we are demonstrating big emotions in a way that can be damaging to our relationships with each other and with our kids, our kids are learning, oh, when mom and [00:08:00] dad are upset, this is how they react.

They yell, they scream, they send me to my room, they spank me. Whatever it is, whatever that emotion is, they slam the door and leave or, and so that’s how kids are learning to respond to their own big emotions. And so we have to take a step back and say, does my child have the skill that they need to respond in the way that I think they should?

Right? But when we also have to say, what are my expectations? Am I expecting my child to respond in a way that they don’t know? That they haven’t seen, that they haven’t learned? And so all emotions are valid, right? We have to start from that place of saying, yes, hitting your sister is not okay, but that emotion that’s leading to that behavior is okay, right?

We just have to work on what are we gonna do with it? So we have to manage our expectations. We have to be [00:09:00] accepting that whatever your child is feeling, that’s what they’re feeling. And so we don’t wanna go calm down. Don’t feel like that. Don’t cry, right? Like, how many times have you seen that? Stop crying.

I know that when my dad, when I was young, would say, stop crying. What did it do? It made me cry harder. And so the reality is, if I could manage this frustration, or disappointment, or anger or sadness without. Crying. I would, if I could be calm in the face of my anger and frustration and, you know, sadness, whatever, I would be calm.

So I need someone as a child to give me a, some skills for managing that big behavior, but also to be present with me to help me co-regulate my emotions. And that word co-regulation is everywhere, all over social media. And basically what that means is, you know, we know all about self-regulation, right?

That ability to [00:10:00] calmly, um, or calm down in the face of whatever big emotion we’re feeling. Well co-regulation means we help someone else do it. Yeah, but we have to have a handle on our own reactions and our own emotions before we can effectively co-regulate with our kids. And here’s the thing, there are these smart cells in our brains called mirror neurons.

So when you yawn, the person sitting next to you is gonna yawn to right? The, those are mirror neurons kicking in. So your actions are mirroring someone else’s actions. There’s so much research on mirror neurons. In fact, you can watch someone running. And the same parts of the brain that are engaged with that person running are engaged in your brain while you’re watching running.

Those are mirror neurons and they are the strongest when they are between people who care about each other. So that means they’re the [00:11:00] strongest between, uh, parents and between parents and kids. their dysregulation will impact us and our dysregulation will. Impact them. Okay. So 

Leah: I, I wanna pick apart a little bit of what you’re saying.

So first of all, this idea of the mirror neurons, like my first thought was there is so much power in mirror neurons that we can even talk about yawning. Like, I can continue to say, oh my gosh, I keep yawning. I’m feeling like I’m yawning. Oh, we’re, and I can probably get some of the people listening to this right now to yawn.

Like, that’s how powerful these mirror neurons can be. So I, I totally understand. There’s so much power in that. And I was thinking about how, you know, our understanding of neuro-plasticity now and how back in the day it was like, once you get to a certain age, you just are what you are. And now we understand that’s completely not true.

But I wanna go back because I’m [00:12:00] so glad that you brought up. Mirroring and like, what are they seeing? Because that was something that I had thought about as like we were getting ready for this interview, right? ? But then I wanna, I wanna ask you about and talk about the other end of that pendulum.

Okay. So there is the one side where, um, what they’re seeing might be some, some explosive emotions at home, right? Because they’re, they also just don’t know how to express their feeling. But I have also seen on the flip side many, many times where a child is out of control and it is clearly not what is being mirrored because the parent is being so passive.

So like, oh, everything you’re feeling is okay and. And the child is out of control being an absolute disruption to everyone, hurting people, whatever it might be. And the parent is, in my own opinion, it seems to be doing way too much. Sue’s saying way too [00:13:00] much. Everything is okay. And I’m like, um, I’m sorry.

Actually what your child needs is some straight discipline. Like they need to know that this is wrong. And I’ll be honest, like I, I’ve had those thoughts and feelings and so, and obviously like that can’t be an explosion and in, you know, us losing control. But I’ve seen where the, the very passive parenting of, I can’t ever tell them that they’ve done something wrong.

Can create in, in all honesty, a little bit of entitled monsters sometimes, who then seem to think that, that they are allowed to treat people in ways that are, are clearly not the way we treat human beings. Okay. So I’m gonna start there ’cause I know, like you, you, I’m sure you have thoughts and I know that’s a lot.

And then, and then I’ll go to the other part that I wanna kind of unpack with you. 

Amy: Sure. Okay. When you see a child who is in full meltdown mode, [00:14:00] there probably isn’t much that that parent can do in that moment to fix it. Agreed. Right. ’cause that child is past the point of no return. Yes. And so we, yes, I am 100% on board with you that we cannot be passive as parents.

Parenting is a very active process. We are never off duty as parents. But I will push back a little bit on the idea of discipline, because discipline comes from the word disciple, which means to teach, 

Leah: okay? 

Amy: So if we think of parenting as teaching all the time, it’s about teaching. It’s not about punishing, it’s about teaching.

Then hopefully, when A, we’re managing our expectations. B, we’re validating emotions. C, we’re capable of managing our own emotions. And D, we come from a mindset that it is our responsibility to teach our [00:15:00] child to, to impart knowledge and skills upon them so that they will be able to handle this situation.

Then the hope is we wouldn’t see the point of no return. Absolute terror. Meltdowns very often. Right. Are they gonna happen, especially in kids who are neurodivergent? Absolutely. Um, that’s still gonna happen no matter how perfect. We think we get it every day. 

Leah: Mm-hmm. 

Amy: but. I think that when I talk about validating all emotions and saying all emotions are okay, that does not mean all behaviors are okay.

Leah: Yes. 

Amy: So, so thank you for allowing me to clarify that. Right. We like, we’re not gonna let our kids run around like little monsters as you call them, right? Like unchecked. Right. But I think what we need to do is say, um, there is a reason that my child is having a difficult time managing his frustration right now, or anger right now, or whatever it is that’s creating [00:16:00] that meltdown.

Mm-hmm. And so we need to go back and say, have we supported our child in every area of their development to maximize the chances that they will be able to handle a situation like that, without so much volatility next time. And so we need to be looking at sleep. We need to be looking at nutrition and physical activity and teaching them resetting skills, you know, and making sure that their cognitive skills are strong.

And so I can talk about each of those and what’s happening in the brain and why those are important. But I know you wanted to unpack a, a second part of that original conversation. 

Leah: I did. And I will get there. But talk me through. Discipline maybe versus consequences, because in my mind there are, there, there are natural consequences that happen to all of us based on our actions, right?

Sure, sure. I might be feeling something, but if I decide to express that in a way that is, you know, wildly inappropriate, I mean, let’s [00:17:00] say I assault someone in public or I, right, like there are consequences to my actions and I, um, have felt like there are times when. Discipline and maybe like, you know, if we unpack that it’d be like, oh, well, maybe that’s the word I use, but really it’s something else.

But is, is necessary because lessons have to be taught. They don’t know. They come in waiting for us to teach them. Right. And they’re, they’re gonna get things wrong. And sometimes that could be to their harm. I, I remember,, when my daughter was just a toddler, you know, she kept running out into the road in parking lots and I have like three babies, right?

I have her, and then I have the infant, and then I have the, the toddler. And it was like, oh my gosh. Right? And like she had to know, you cannot do this. And I could try to do all the things, but she’d rle away and run. Right. , And obviously the consequence of that could be fatal and was not willing to, you know, for us to [00:18:00] test that one.

Right. So, so, I mean, that’s a very extreme example, but is there, is there a difference between discipline and consequences in your mind, and, and how do you see that? 

Amy: Yeah, so I actually, I think that’s a great example because most things are negotiable But safety and health are not. And so I think it’s okay to set a hard boundary, right?

We don’t run into the street. Here’s what could happen if we run into the street. So as your parent, it’s my job to keep you safe and healthy. I will do everything I can to keep you from running into the street. If I have to physically restrain you to keep you from running into the street, I’m going to physically restrain you.

That doesn’t mean I’m gonna spank you if you run into the street. So the consequence of you running into the street is that I’m going to block your ability to run rampant, right? Right. But that does not mean I’m going to physically hurt you to teach you a lesson. The [00:19:00] consequence of you continuing to run into the street is that wherever it is that this situation is occurring, wherever it is that we are currently playing, we are not going to play in that area until you have the skill to stop yourself from running into the street.

So we’re gonna have to think of some alternative things to do, some alternative activities, some alternative locations, because it’s my job to keep you safe. That’s gonna be disappointing to you. I know that you want to play there, but clearly you’ve shown me that you’re not capable. And I have three other children in tow, right?

So if I’m constantly chasing you to the edge of the street, then I’m not keeping your siblings safe and healthy either. So again, it’s about managing expectations, right? Like if this is a three-year-old child, I want this, I want this, I want this, right? They don’t actually have the ability yet. To control those urges.

and we [00:20:00] want kids to be able to make decisions because it’s the right thing to do and not because they’re afraid of punishment. 

Leah: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. 

Amy: Does that, can that help in the short term? Sure. But the long, long-term consequences of uh, physical punishment or spanking are just not worth it. Yes. Yeah.

Leah: Yeah. Yeah. Com completely agree. Sure. As, as someone who got a lot of physical , punishments growing up, I can tell you I knew I was never going to choose that route. And, and obviously, you know, here’s the problem with those things. they break down your, your future relationships and it really does come down to, um, not being able to control our reactions in the moment, right? I’ve, I’ve always felt so strongly that, um, discipline or correction needs to always come from love and not fear. And [00:21:00] when we switch over to fear a lot, most of the time, very often we are gonna have regrets about how we responded. So, you know, taking that moment, whatever needs to happen.

Uh, but I, but I think there’s something there about we sometimes you can’t talk through and reason through with young children. I mean, heck, we can’t even do it with adults. Like look at adults trying to talk through, having different opinions. They, they won’t even listen to each other. There, there is a point where.

There, there has to be consequences. ’cause I’ve looked at wonderful women who have read all the books. They are doing it right. They’re talking to them, they’re explaining, they’re, I mean, they’re just beautiful examples of patience in the most incredible degree. And I’ve watched over years and saw that it’s not helping.

It’s, they’re not ever [00:22:00] getting through. They’re not getting mm-hmm. That, that understanding. And, and you know, if we go even deeper, it’s affected that child’s experience because people don’t wanna be their friend, they don’t wanna be around them. They don’t want to, have to experience their reactions or, or whatever it might be.

Sure. Right. Absolutely. And so, yeah, like I am, you know, I’ve seen all these different things over the years and. You’re trying to navigate because we’re all trying to be the best parent we can and deal with these little humans that have very much their own personalities. And sometimes, I mean, I just, it’s so fascinating.

I was talking with someone yesterday and we were talking about how these very different personalities that we all have, but that you see that even within the same home. So where there’s a pretty, I mean the most similar experience you could have, you grew up in the same house with the same rules. You know, everyone has a different experience and they’re still so wildly different.[00:23:00] 

Right. And so knowing and understanding that the experience that each child needs, there’s going to need to be modifications, right? Because the, the way that I might talk with one child, and I know that that will be receptive if I spoke to another one in that same way, would. Would hurt them. Like they wouldn’t be able to receive it.

It would kind of, kind of cripple them. Right? And so like this awareness of of having to work with each child as they are. Okay. The other thing I was gonna ask you, and, and I want you to know, I am open to you changing my mind and, and helping me see another perspective, but I have, I, I’m gonna be completely honest, I have struggled when, uh, and I know it’s, it’s, this is the, the common belief and, and I am the outsider here, but when I hear that all feelings are valid, and maybe I don’t understand it properly because I [00:24:00] have heard people’s feelings, I hate them.

I, I some feelings that I think. I don’t know if it’s helpful to say that that’s valid. I have had some pretty yucky feelings. Kay. Some pretty angry, mean, cruel feelings throughout my life, and I can be very honest with myself and say, that’s not a valid feeling. Now my experiences, what I’ve gone through, what I’ve had to, to endure, what I’ve, you know, that’s where it’s coming from.

But by me having the ability to untangle and say, this actually isn’t truth. This isn’t valid, and I want to be better. Like, I don’t wanna accept me at this level because I know I can be better than this. Right. Maybe it’s because I look at it as it’s excusing and maybe it’s not. Maybe that’s where you’re gonna help kind of shift my perspective.

So, so I, I will, you know, I’m admitting all feelings are [00:25:00] valid. That has always like. There’s this little part of me that goes, wait, are we sure we want to say that? And and so help me, help me understand from, from your perspective. Yeah. So 

Amy: our reaction to what we think is happening mm-hmm. Is our reaction.

That is our feeling. We are feeling based on the variables at play, what we think is the reality, what we think we heard, what we think we saw, what we think we know. 

Leah: Mm-hmm. 

Amy: How we respond to that. Knowledge is valid. Right. How we feel about it. Now, the language we use in response isn’t always okay. Right. So by yelling, I hate you.

That’s not okay. You can be mad, but you can’t be mean. Right. That can be a rule. 

Leah: Mm-hmm. 

Amy: Um. But when you question your own [00:26:00] feelings, when you start to say, Hey, I don’t think that’s accurate. It isn’t that your feeling was wrong, it’s that your knowledge about the situation was incomplete or wrong. Mm-hmm.

Right. So, hey, I’m thinking about this situation because this is the information I have, but there might be some information that I don’t know, or that person didn’t intend to be mean to me. I just interpreted it because I was tired or in a bad mood, or something had happened that morning. And so my reaction was based on how I felt when that person insulted me.

But that person might not have meant it that way. Mm-hmm. And once you can work through that, then you recognize, okay, so I misinterpreted it, which is why I got mad or why I got angry. Now that I have all of the information now my feeling about the situation is different. That feeling is valid too. And oh, and typically [00:27:00] where we do the most damage is when we’re angry.

But anger is a secondary emotion. There’s something happening and it’s usually fear. Mm-hmm. There’s something happening that makes us feel angry and it’s usually, Hey, I fear that that person is going to withdraw their love from me, or I fear that I’m gonna miss out on something that I really wanna do, or I Right.

So that’s a really 

Leah: good point because I have heard that before, that anger is a secondary emotion. And I was actually talking to my, one of my oldest the other day, and I was telling her that something I’ve learned about myself is when I feel vulnerable, I tend to get angry because I, I, right. Like I. I spent a lot of my childhood very vulnerable and very helpless, and there was nothing I could do.

And so that vulnerability kicks in this like anger that I, I’m trying to protect myself. And so over [00:28:00] time I’ve really worked to catch myself and recognize what’s happening. And, and I think it’s that examining feelings. And maybe that’s why the idea of every feeling is valid. Maybe I’m misunderstanding as every feeling is.

Okay. And, and my, I don’t know that I, I want to say that mean cruel feelings, whether towards myself, because that’s the other thing I think we have to look at. A lot of times the feelings that we’re feeling, the saddest part is that they’re to ourselves. Like we, we haven’t learned to love ourselves.

Mm-hmm. And so, and I think a lot of times when we react in a way that we’re not proud of, it maybe comes down to it brought out something in ourselves that just hurts. That we don’t feel like we’re enough. 

Amy: Absolutely. We, we are terrible at showing ourselves grace. Mm-hmm. Terrible at it.

Um, so I like the distinction that you made. Right. Just because I’m feeling it doesn’t mean that [00:29:00] I should continue to feel this unchecked. 

Leah: Yes. 

Amy: Right. And so I think we have to be really self-aware and, and that is something that we nurture and curate, right? We don’t just, we’re not born with self-awareness.

Right? Right. And so we have to say, oh, I’m feeling really angry right now. What is happening? What is it that I’m really dealing with? And so am I afraid of losing something? Am I afraid that I violated a should somewhere or someone else violated a should? Right. And do I need to be more flexible in my thinking?

Mm-hmm. Right? Just because I think it should be that way. Does that mean it’s the only way? Right. And so then when we can learn to be a little bit more cognitively, cognitively flexible in our thinking, um, then we can lower the temperature on some of those negative emotions. And the reality is most of us don’t like those negative emotions.

We don’t wanna feel angry, [00:30:00] we don’t wanna feel resentful, we don’t wanna be mad. We don’t even like being frustrated. And so we, again, we have to learn some self-regulation so that we can stay calm, access our prefrontal cortex and reason through all the possible explanations. 

Leah: Right. So I love that you said that, like, we don’t want to feel this way, but I think the honest truth is there is a lot of us, especially as adults, who feel trapped in those feelings, right?

Sure. They’re like, yeah, I don’t wanna be angry all the time. I don’t wanna be resentful. I don’t wanna have the smallest thing happen. And it just sets me off. And then I’m berating myself so. I feel like that’s a great opportunity to segue, like what do we do?

How do we level up and, and like overcome what sometimes feels like, like these emotions that we feel like are controlling us instead of us being in control of our emotions, which is [00:31:00] ultimately, you know, your, your fancy doctor way of saying self-regulated, but Right. Like to me, I’m like, yeah. Those, those times when you feel like, man, my emotions are controlling me or, you know, and instead of me controlling my emotions.

It’s Leah, and I’m pausing us really quick on this conversation. Don’t worry, it is coming back. We are clearly not done, but we are gonna jump into. Part two so that I can keep things short and tangible for you. So go ahead and pop over to part two as we get to continue this conversation 

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