Amber, it is so amazing to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. 

[00:00:36] Amber: Thank you for having me. 

[00:00:39] Leah: It’s been too long. You and I were talking about this beforehand. It’s been years, which is crazy to think that somehow it’s been years. I don’t even know how that’s possible, but you are someone who I just treasure.

[00:00:51] Leah: And like, I think about as like someone who has been the biggest blessing because when I was. pivoting from the photography industry and I was ready to move into like, I want to help all kinds of people. You were the first person that really gave me literally a stage and you know, getting to come speak at Inspired Retreat, which you are so incredible at events and retreats and getting to speak there twice.

[00:01:19] Leah: And it was just, anyways, I adore you. And I’m so grateful for you. 

[00:01:24] Amber: Thank you. You know, it’s funny because I, you know, over the years you get a lot of emails in your inbox, right? Of, you could say cold pitches, like people just kind of come in, like want to connect with you or they, they found some kind of alignment with you.

[00:01:37] Amber: And yours just stood out in the inbox that day. And I always think it’s always like divinely led or, you know, or something of that sort. But I, I, I remember your email. I remember it coming through and I, it was just so different. The message and the heart, I think, behind what you wanted to do and what you wanted to teach other women, um, that it stood out like in the inbox.

[00:01:58] Amber: I was like, okay, I’m going to give this person a chance because I don’t give everyone a chance. But yeah, I did. 

[00:02:03] Leah: And I’m so glad I did. That’s so funny. And honestly, like knowing you, you know, after the years of getting to know you more and, and being at more events of yours, like, you know, your first coterie and, um, you know, the retreat a couple of times, it wasn’t until later that I realized just how amazing that was that I did get there.

[00:02:22] Leah: Like I was like, Oh dang, that was really amazing. And, and you’re right. It did. It did like, There was so much heart behind it. And I think that’s important because I think people need to understand at the end of the day, it is people talking to people, like we’re all humans. And sometimes we kind of forget that.

[00:02:41] Leah: And, um, and I remember I had just, I’d gotten the email about Inspired Retreat and I had this overwhelming, like. I have to be there. Like I have to, like this message is in such perfect alignment with everything. I believe this seems so powerful, but I couldn’t just be normal and say like, you know, and so I’m going to like be an attendee.

[00:03:05] Leah: I was like, and therefore I must be on the stage. I must be a speaker. And I’m so grateful that I got to do that. I still remember when. You know, we did we did get to connect and I’ll say another component of that is that people like we’re this is so funny we’re gonna be talking about just so everyone knows we’re gonna be talking about sales funnels and Value ladders, but I think this is powerful and I want to just like, you know have this real conversation Um, you didn’t respond right away.

[00:03:33] Leah: And like, like, so I sent the email and I didn’t hear anything. And I think this is really important because I followed up. And I think so many times people send one email and they go, oh, okay, well, they don’t want me. It didn’t work. And, and I, I couldn’t stop thinking about Inspired. Like I just felt like I was supposed to be there and I hadn’t heard back from you.

[00:03:53] Leah: And I, I just felt like I like had this nudge that was like follow up and I even argued with it. I was like, no. No. Like, like it was such a brazen email and like she might already think, Oh my gosh. And, but I decided to, and I remember your response and you were like, I am so glad you followed up. I just had eye surgery and like, things are crazy and I’m so, so glad you followed up.

[00:04:15] Leah: And so I’ve, I have shared that story so many times when I’ve been teaching and, and different opportunities because. The follow up is a critical component. Like, we need to just assume they’re not going to get back to us the first time. They’re having eye surgery, people, and they can’t get back to you.

[00:04:30] Leah: And, you know, to have that 

[00:04:32] Amber: follow up. Even before you said the eye surgery part, because I’d forgotten. That was a very key part in, yeah, my life at that season. Yeah, I couldn’t even read my inbox. Yes, you could not see. inches from the screen. It was terrible. Um, but I, when you started the story, I was like, Oh yeah, this is for all the ADHD entrepreneurs out there myself.

[00:04:52] Amber: Like I’m, I’m tear, I’m terrible at my inbox. Like that’s why I always tell people from my community and whatnot. I’m like email hello at amber halsey. com that’s the team because you’ll get a great customer service, a very timely response. But me, like I opened up my inbox and it’s a flood of emails.

[00:05:10] Amber: That’s just harder for me to get through and sort through. But that follow up is so key. Yeah. Like you need it. 

[00:05:16] Leah: Yeah. I mean, we’re all trying to juggle and balance so much. And let’s be honest, sometimes the, the inbox, you know, it gets, it gets pushed to the side because there’s other more pressing things.

[00:05:28] Leah: And I think that’s why it’s so important to try to keep your email as short as possible. Like we’ve all experienced where you open your inbox, you see an email and it is a novel and you’re like back to unread. I’ll try to get to that later. And then, you know, life just keeps happening. So trying to keep them as short as possible with the information you need and then making sure you follow up because amazing things can happen like having Amber Housley say, you know what, I would actually love to have you speak.

[00:05:54] Leah: In fact, why don’t you be the keynote speaker? And I 

[00:05:56] Amber: was like, no, no, like give that to everyone. Like not everyone gets that. So amazing. I mean, and oh my gosh, I know this is not what this, this episode’s about. But. Last night. It was valid. Yesterday was Valentine’s Day when we were recording this now. And, um, I was at the restaurant with my husband and I was getting dings on my phone, you know, and we were having a moment and he works from home.

[00:06:21] Amber: So we’re around each other 24 7. I always say when we’re at restaurants and people see us on our phones. I want to tell everyone in the room. We’re around each other all the time. I promise we talk and we have a great connection. We’re just checking our phones right now. Anyway, but um, I had, I was checking my Facebook messages, which I don’t check very often.

[00:06:39] Amber: It’s not a channel that I use. And there was all kinds of messages in there from people who were wanting to connect on that way. And like in some way, like collaborate, speaking, whatever. And I’m like, Ooh, this is like a terrible like channel to be reaching me at, you know? And so I think like it’s maybe a double pronged approach is good and you could hit me up in Facebook messenger, but send me an actual real email.

[00:07:02] Amber: That’s where you’re going to really get my attention. Not necessarily in any kind of direct messages scenario. Cause I can’t keep track of 

[00:07:09] Leah: that. Yes. So I’m the same way. I am terrible in Facebook messenger. Like I have seen things. A year later and been like, I am so sorry, right? Like it is just not, it’s, it’s not my channel, but what’s so fascinating.

[00:07:22] Leah: Then there’s other people where like the only way you’re going to reach them is in their IG DMs, right? Like you better be on Instagram in their DMs. They don’t ever check their email. And that I think is another component. You need to do a little research and figure out where it seems like they’re active and what seems like their place.

[00:07:38] Leah: So if I DM someone, I will often make sure I comment. Okay. on a post of theirs and, you know, comment on the post and say, plus I left you a DM. I can’t wait to connect with you. Or if I sent them an email, but they seem to be very active on social, I’ll comment and say, and I just sent you an email. I can’t wait to connect with you.

[00:07:56] Leah: So I, that double pronged approach. I agree. I think it’s really powerful and just, thinking that you’re sending in one spot because it’s your spot and it’s going to work like Facebook Messenger. And if that’s not their channel and their place, you think you’ve been like overlooked or ignored or ghosted and they have no idea that it ever even was sent.

[00:08:19] Amber: Yes, no, a hundred percent. And, and you might even have, if, if it’s a person that has a team as well, sometimes the team is the one checking the messages via another thing and you have No visibility to it, which is a lot of the case sometimes too. Cause they get filtered to different apps and plugins and things like that, where a team takes care of messages.

[00:08:37] Amber: And yeah, you got, you got to hit up in all the places. 

[00:08:40] Leah: It’s so true. It’s so true. Okay. So speaking of all the places trying to figure this out, we’re going to pivot this into sales funnels, sales funnels and value ladders. So let’s just start really simple. Just. Let’s get like what’s a very basic. What is a sales funnel and what is a value ladder and then we’ll start building out from there 

[00:09:02] Amber: Okay.

[00:09:02] Amber: Okay. Well, I always say too when we start talking about all these these advanced marketing strategies You could say there’s a lot of listeners and like students within my programs. They can start to feel overwhelmed and Less than like in this kind of conversation because of the jargon and the words and software and you get into all these different pathways and journeys.

[00:09:25] Amber: So I always say, like, it’s good to listen to this type of content and this type of episode with an open mind and the idea that. Hey, if I could just get one thing right now that I can implement and then just tuck everything else in my back pocket and down the road as I grow and my business grows and I need more tools, I need more strategies, then I can go and pull those things out, but not to feel overwhelmed and intimidated by any of this conversation.

[00:09:48] Amber: So I think that’s important first. 

[00:09:50] Leah: I love that so much. I often. For myself personally, but also when I’m coaching and teaching, I say, okay, let’s look at this as phase one, phase two, phase three, like phase one, we’re just going to, it’s, it’s like in college, you start with one Oh one. And then you, you know, you don’t start in the four hundreds.

[00:10:06] Leah: Right. And so I think that’s such a great reminder that, and that’s one of the ways we balance it all is if you try to take on all of it at once, it’s going to feel so daunting and overwhelming and there’s a good chance you’re going to just walk away and be like, nevermind, it’s, it’s too much. But if we just start with, okay, let’s start with one action step or start with the phase one version and then we can always evolve and it’s going to get easier to evolve because phase one is now going to make sense and be easy.

[00:10:33] Leah: So now stacking phase two is going to, is going to come. Yeah, 

[00:10:38] Amber: absolutely. Well, okay, we’ll start with a sales funnel or like in our world, an online sales funnel is kind of really what our conversation about is about. So an online sales funnel is kind of like a virtual pathway where you’re guiding people to be curious about your product or your service or anything that you offer, and you’re guiding them to eventually become a paying customer.

[00:11:02] Amber: So there’s a lot of, Step by steps that you’re kind of guiding people through, um, engaging them at different levels of the journey. And just like a real funnel, like if you think it’s so weird, cause we don’t use oil funnels anymore. And we don’t like, like I think of like the actual, um, physical funnel is the idea that it’s very wide at the top and it’s very narrow at the bottom.

[00:11:25] Amber: That’s what it is. Cause I’m like, I feel like our, the newer generations would not know what that tool is. Right. I don’t think that is. But as they go through different stages, it gets narrower and narrower until they become a paying customer. And so that’s basically an online sales funnel, and you can use different softwares and different tools to help automate different steps in that process and convert people who are interested into paying customers.

[00:11:54] Amber: So that is the online sales funnel. And then a product value ladder is, Similar in a lot of cases, and it’s the idea of, um, kind of like a rungs on a ladder. Um, people can be guided through their experience or even through an online sales funnel to buy at different stages of where they need solutions for their problems.

[00:12:16] Amber: And so we think of the bottom of the ladder as being entry level, maybe even free or very low ticket. And then as they graduate levels, as they need more solutions, um, or as they advance in some way, maybe just depending on your product or service, um, they’ll invest more with you. And so people can come in at the top of your ladder.

[00:12:38] Amber: They can come in at the bottom, the middle, but, um, your different offers can kind of be positioned in that way, uh, strategically. 

[00:12:46] Leah: Okay. So can we, would you say that a sales funnel and a value ladder are Kind of the same thing, just different terms for them? Or would you say no, there’s actually a different place for each?

[00:12:58] Amber: I think of the sales funnel as more of the marketing tactics. And then the value ladder is the products that would happen within the funnel. Like they, they, like they’re almost like they can make purchases along the way within their funnel. 

[00:13:14] Leah: I like that. I think of a value ladder often as like what your product suite is.

[00:13:18] Leah: Right? Like, like when I think of a value ladder, I’m like, okay, here’s my product suite. And you know, it’s, it makes sense that they would start with like, this is almost like the step one product. And then this is step two product and step three product. And you’re kind of working them down and usually that’s going to be ticket price, right?

[00:13:33] Leah: Like it’s going to start smaller and go bigger, but it’s also going to be information because you know, they’re not ready to do step four until they’ve learned how to do step one, two and three. Right. So that’s how I like to think of the product 

[00:13:49] Amber: value ladder. Yeah. And I think too, is a lot of people believe, Oh, so do I start at the bottom, like in my creation phase?

[00:13:57] Amber: And that’s not necessarily always the case. Like I think of different clients I’ve worked over the years where they’re, they had one offer and it was a very high ticket offer, you know, that could have been, you know, a thousand dollars or more maybe to invest in. Right. And so that’s, was their bread and butter for all these years.

[00:14:12] Amber: And so. We would work together to go and build out their ladder. So there’d be more offers at the beginning stages so they can serve more people. And so really just depending on your own business needs and growth and what you want to do with your time, that’s when you can kind of decide when you, where you start in building out your whole ladder and your whole product suite.

[00:14:32] Leah: I love that you mentioned that. Cause I was actually one of those people. I started with those higher ticket price points where I was above a thousand dollars for all my products. And then later on thought, you know what? I need to add in some lower options so that people who don’t, can’t make that decision quite yet still have the opportunity to learn and grow.

[00:14:55] Leah: So I love that you pointed that out. Okay. So let’s, um, Let’s start by maybe talking through like us a sales funnel like what that could look like starting with a freebie And then how that actually maybe goes 

[00:15:10] Amber: down. Sure. Well, I think I’ve, I like to use real examples. So I’ll actually give you an example of one of our sales funnels.

[00:15:16] Amber: We have an Amber Housley. So on what I teach on marketing and strategy for businesses and seasonal practices in your life. But I also teach people and business owners how to create retreats and live events in your business. And so as we built out that side of the business, uh, we created a whole funnel and the very first thing we did is we actually created a course.

[00:15:38] Amber: And so we have a course invite and delight. It’s a 997 investment level of a product. So it’d be high ticket. And, um, once we created the course beta launched it, you know, all the things, well, then I had to work backwards to create the whole sales funnel. So then I could create content. Cause not everybody like who comes through and meets me for the first time wants to.

[00:15:59] Amber: 1, 000 like before they’ve actually, you know, really gotten to know me and trust me, you know So what we did is we created a lead magnet. So we created a free opt in a freebie guide That’s called the retreat planning roadmap That kind of gives you almost like the the starting points if you want to get started creating retreats Here’s like the ten things you need to know Here’s some mistakes you want to avoid.

[00:16:23] Amber: Here’s like a whole checklist of like all the things that go into creating retreats. And so very juicy guide. And so when you go to that page, which by the way, we create lots of marketing content that then fuels all to that freebie download. Like we want it to be really easy for them to like build that trust and see the knowledge and experience I have to share.

[00:16:44] Amber: And so Pretty much when I’m on podcasts or I’m, you know, elsewhere online, I’m sending everybody to this landing page for this free opt in. So when they go to download it, they’re, um, given the download, given the free gift and on that thank you page, um, I introduced them to a low ticket offer. So on the thank you page, and in some of the emails that follow the delivery of that resource, um, there’s a 37 product we call the dream retreat challenge, which is actually some of the Like first lessons within the course, so it’s almost like a taste of invite and delight the higher ticket offer And it’s all about like envisioning what your retreat could look like like dreaming it up all the pieces and everything And it just like starts getting you comfortable with like getting in practice of creating this retreat and then eventually we start nurturing them into Invite and delight through other emails and through other marketing methods So that’s actually the funnel itself.

[00:17:42] Amber: Um, as you kind of go from the freebie point to a lower ticket offer to the higher ticket one. 

[00:17:49] Leah: Okay. That is so, so helpful for people to actually hear of a funnel go through. And the thing that stood out to me that I was interested in is that. The thing to start with is the free, okay, or very, very low ticket.

[00:18:07] Leah: And I’m starting to get more of a fan of a very, very low ticket because we do have so many people who, you know, they’re, they’re just about, they collect all the free stuff. They don’t ever do anything with the free stuff. Right. So having just a little skin in the game can be really powerful, but most of us and me included, we have a lot of free.

[00:18:24] Leah: It’s a PDF, it’s a mini course, it’s a masterclass, it’s a workbook, but it’s something that gives value and that feels valuable enough to exchange an email address for, right? And they say that most of us, uh, value our email address. worth at least 10. So it needs to feel at least valued at, at 10. But ultimately what I really think is it just needs to cover a pain point.

[00:18:49] Leah: Like ultimately, if, if I have a current pain point and I’m thinking, I really want to host a retreat, right? Like I want to do this and I get to stumble on your landing page and it tells me like, Hey, for free, I’ll give you this breakdown in this guide. I’m like, heck yeah, here is my email address. I want it.

[00:19:09] Leah: So, you know, that’s, that’s the way we think about this freebie. And then you have the 37, right? Was that it? 37? Yeah. 

[00:19:16] Amber: Okay. But then three day challenge 

[00:19:18] Leah: product. Okay. But then you’re jumping to 997. Like you’re jumping from 37 to a thousand. 

[00:19:24] Amber: So that’s interesting. I know as I was saying it aloud, I was like, oops, you left out an important detail ever.

[00:19:29] Leah: Okay. Cause I was like, Whoa, that is a very, 

[00:19:33] Amber: that’s a huge job. Okay. So what we did, so when we live launch invite and delight, which I do a couple of times a year, um, there’s actually two versions of invite and delight. So there’s the, um, we call it full, like the full program experience, which Lifetime access to me.

[00:19:52] Amber: Live coaching every month through office hours, a Facebook group. Like it’s like the full program experience, but we introduced a lower cost investment for people who want to DIY. And that one is 4. 97. Okay. And so that one is, yes, that one typically we call that our evergreen funnel, our invite and delight evergreen.

[00:20:12] Amber: So not the live version. The evergreen version is usually typically what we’re selling from the 37 product to the 497. And within that, like it’s offered on the page of, um, the sales page, you can choose between basic and full. So 497 versus 997. Um, but most of it is guiding people to choose the 497 version.

[00:20:34] Amber: And then we, like, Put some marketing messaging within the course of basic to ask them, Hey, do you want to upgrade and get the full program experience, which is so much better, you know? And so it, to me, it makes sense in that when I call evergreen, when we’re not in a live launch period and that’s the funnel that is running because four 97 is a lot easier, especially with a payment plan.

[00:20:55] Amber: Like they’re all in, but the live experience, like I know personally as the course creator, like, The full program’s experience is what I think students should buy because they, they’re going to need at some point, they’re going to have a question and answer, you know, and so that’s why we sell that version and we point everyone to that during the live launches.

[00:21:14] Leah: Yes. Okay. I love that you added that component because I was like, whoop, that is a pop. Too big. So, okay. But I also love that you just brought up something else that maybe people aren’t familiar with, which is evergreen versus life. So evergreen is where it’s available all the time. So we’ve all gone to something and you can purchase this, this offer tomorrow or next week or next month or next year.

[00:21:39] Leah: Well, if it’s still around. We’ve also gotten all the emails that are like, doors are closing 24 hours left. That’s a live launch. So live launches typically last about two weeks. Um, and it can be, sometimes they’re really short. Sometimes they’re 24 hours, 48 hours. But I would say they typically go about 10 days.

[00:21:59] Leah: to 14 days. So usually about two weeks. So as a business owner, you’re all in for that, for that two weeks, but really, let’s be honest, it’s for the like weeks leading up that you’re all in. 

[00:22:10] Amber: I mean, we’re planning one right now for invite and delight in April and yeah, the, the, the content calendar is booked for all of March.

[00:22:18] Amber: Like it’s all retreats all the time. 

[00:22:20] Leah: Yes. I mean, Here, here’s what I would say are some of the benefits. It makes your content creation really clear. All you’re going to be talking about is this thing that’s coming up. So that’s fun, right? You don’t have to think, what am I going to say today? It’s obvious.

[00:22:33] Leah: But it is, it’s a lot like it’s, it’s you and I, something that’s fun is like you and I have both done tons of retreats. We’ve both done live launches. We’ve both done evergreen. We’ve done small courses, giant courses. You know, we each have done every price point from. Yeah, you know under ten dollars or ten dollars up to 5, 000 and plus.

[00:22:57] Leah: And so, um, so we’ve, we’ve experienced it all and, and tried it all. And you know, that evergreen is great because it’s like, you set it up once you set up the funnels and then it’s just always available. It’s always there. 

[00:23:11] Amber: But when you get, like, when you get notifications on your phone, yeah, my team member, Lauren, she’ll be like, oh, someone bought invite and delight basic last night.

[00:23:21] Amber: Like so fun, you know, or, I wonder where they came from and we go into our software and we’re like, okay, where did they, what, what thing did they download? Where did they come from? Like we like to know all that, you know, it’s. You were about to say, and I know this is what your intention wasn’t this, where it’s like, set it and forget it.

[00:23:36] Amber: Cause it’s definitely not that at all. Um, and in fact, you’re always going in there tweaking and like checking things out because you want to know like what’s working and what’s not working. 

[00:23:46] Leah: Yeah. What’s amazing about evergreen is that you can, you can work to create consistent income, but it can have lulls, right?

[00:23:54] Leah: Because the power of a live launch is that. There is a component of scarcity. You’re going to come in, it’s available, but it’s going to be going away. And so you have to make a decision. Evergreen, the negative is you can continue to think about it because it’s not going anywhere. But for that person who is eager and ready in the moment, they don’t have to wait for your live launch to come back and they’re in a join the wait list.

[00:24:24] Leah: They get to say yes right this moment. So I think they each have a really powerful place and I love that you have Your lower ticket as the evergreen option and then your higher ticket as the live launch option. So I really love that because yeah, there is, there really is a place for each of them. 

[00:24:42] Amber: No, it’s been good.

[00:24:42] Amber: It’s been good. And it’s, it’s interesting, like right now, as we were making decisions for the upcoming live launch, we were actually just discussing as a team, okay, when do we turn off the evergreen and start moving people do a wait list? Because. At you know a couple weeks ahead of time of launch. I don’t want people to be buying the basic version I know I know like I said in my heart of hearts the full version is what people need like that’s how they’re gonna have The best outcome and achieve the results they want and so it’s this weird tension of like But were there people that were going to buy?

[00:25:15] Amber: Like, I hate like making them go to this wait list, you know? And it’s like trying to have peace, like, no, the people who will come, we’ll get, we’ll buy it when they need it. And you know, they’ll be patient and it’s okay. We can turn it off about a month out and make like switch all our links and things like that.

[00:25:31] Amber: I 

[00:25:31] Leah: love that you said that. Cause that’s real, true entrepreneurship. Like we all struggle with trying to make those decisions, you know, trying to decide what the right price point is. Oh, but if I made it lower. Would it bring more people in? But then does that actually make people think it’s not as valuable now?

[00:25:47] Leah: And you know, when do I turn off this and turn this on? And how long should I be promoting? And what’s the right amount to have the launch open? Like there are so many decisions that, that, yeah, you kind of have to follow your heart and your gut. And just, I think that one of the most powerful things is turn yourself as if you were the customer.

[00:26:06] Leah: What do you like? Sometimes we get so stuck in what would work for us as entrepreneurs. And we really need to be thinking as the customer. When I’m trying to make these decisions, what do I appreciate? What has helped me say yes. And, and that can be so powerful. 

[00:26:21] Amber: Yeah. Okay. I would say too, as a student, I love being, I love buying things when they’re in live launch mode, because there’s always, Extra bonuses.

[00:26:29] Amber: There’s usually extra energy and momentum among the other students. So I know like as a shopper, and when I buy things from other courses and other educators online, like I’m buying it. I want to, I do want it during the live one because I know there’s usually extra incentives for doing that. Yes. 

[00:26:44] Leah: Oh, it’s so good.

[00:26:44] Leah: It’s so true. It’s so true. There’s extra. I love what you said. There’s extra energy. There’s like an energy. There’s probably going to be more community involvement. Right? It’s not going to be DIY. I’m all alone trying to figure this out. There’s going to be this community involvement, which is going to help me actually finish it and do the thing versus, you know, have it sit there.

[00:27:03] Leah: I was going to say on the shelf, but like on the desktop, it’s there, in the desk, top left. Yes. 

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