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Copywriting Secrets Revealed: How to Write Words that Sell with Kelsey Formost (Ep 36)

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Copywriting really is one of the biggest things that gets entrepreneurs stuck. We have to write the newsletter, the Instagram bio, an email response, that sales page, the about me page, the whole. dang. website. and wow that can get overwhelming. Deep breaths.

My guest today, Kelsey Formost, is here to help take us from feeling intimidated and overwhelmed by copywriting to inspired and empowered.

Copywriting is not only a completely learnable skill, but it’s also a repeatable skill and that’s good news for everyone. In this episode, we’re going to pull back the curtain to help you think like a copywriter, so that you never have to sit staring at that blinking cursor of death ever again.


This episode will help:

👉 The entrepreneur who gets stuck everytime you have to try to write something
👉 Anyone who feels intimidated by writing their own copy
👉 Entrepreneurs learn how to write words that sell without sounding “salesy”

In this episode:

3:59 What is Copy?
8:53 Your voice is a magnet
11:12 You need to niche down
19:59 Bringing more power to your words
24:28 What is Review Mining?
28:07 Paint the before and after pictures
32:32 Writing and Editing Tips
37:33 Every piece of copy needs a goal

WHAT IS COPY?

Copy is so much more than just words we write. Copy is the words that represent you, your brand, or your business.

You have the power to adjust those words, not only to show yourself in the best light, but also to be the most effective in getting people to take action. In fact, the actual definition for copywriting is the art and science of using words to get a desired reader to take a desired outcome. Which as business owners is what we all want! We want our ideal clients and customers to take action!

What do we mean by the art and science? The art of writing copy is just who you are. It’s the natural way that you talk, how you show up in the world and how you feel the most authentic. The science is the formulas and the frameworks, like proven sentence structure, trigger words, layouts etc. and once you know the art of who you are, along with the science of how to communicate that, you’re set for life.

You never have to relearn it again. Once you know the copywriting strategies and formulas, you’ve got ’em. They don’t change. It is not an Instagram algorithm. Isn’t that so comforting to know if we just spend some time learning a little bit about how to think like a copywriter, we will never have to sit staring at that blinking cursor of death ever again?!

YOUR VOICE IS A MAGNET

I want you to think of your brand voice as a magnet. If you flip it one way, it attracts other magnets to it. And if you flip it the other way, the other magnets will shoot away.

When you are really strong in your brand voice, it attracts exactly the right people to you, and at the same time repels people who don’t wanna pay you.

It’s such a valuable tool to have in your toolkit, and can help prevents writer’s block, because If we don’t know our brand voice, then that’s when we get stuck.

If you are newer on your entrepreneurial path you might be thinking “Why would I wanna repel anyone? I just want all the clients.”

You actually don’t. Just trust me on this one. You don’t want all the people, you want the right people.


YOU NEED TO NICHE DOWN

When Kelsey started out as a freelance copywriter helping hundreds of women start businesses, she actually saw hundreds of results of what happened when people niched down and when people got really specific about their brand voice. 100% of the time, the people who niched down and got incredibly specific were the ones who were the most financially successful. The ones who were sort of wishy-washy and didn’t wanna alienate anybody, the ones who wanted to help everybody, those were the people who burnt out and they didn’t make as much money.

Think about doctors, you need to be very specific about what kind of doctor you need. If you have a foot problem, it wouldn’t be very helpful to see an ear, nose, and throat specialist. Yes, they are both doctors, but the help different people with different problems. Your business is the same way and your copy is how you can get incredibly clear so that when your ideal client or customer finds you, they don’t have to wonder or second guess, they know that you are a heck yes. The more specific we are, the more they’re like, “YES! That’s the person I need!”



GIVING OUR WORDS MORE POWER

Okay, so we’ve got our voice nailed down, we know our ideal client, we’ve niched down… how can we give our words more power? The number one piece of advice that Kelsey has is to know your primary offer. What is that one thing that your ideal client or customer is after, and point to that. Going back to the doctor example, if I know that my ideal client is a person struggling with Rosacea. I’m gonna get super specific in my copy and talk directly about Rosacea instead of ALL the possible skincare problems out there. So number one is to get specific.

Number 2 is to paint a really good before and after picture. Here is an example of staring at the blinking cursor of death. So the “before” might be: “Are you struggling every time you sit down to the computer staring at the blinking cursor of death, not knowing what to say to your email?”

And the after: “Imagine sitting down and feeling totally confident that the right words are going to pour out of you so that you can send emails consistently that will actually convert.”

That’s the before and after. This exercise can help you understand not just what you do and the problems that you solve, but how you want your ideal customer to feel when they land on that website or when they see that post or that email come in their inbox. It’s all about painting the picture. You want them to see themselves in the before picture. And you want them excited about the after and to know that YOU are the one that can get them there.

WRITE FIRST, EDIT LATER

Okay, so when it comes time to actually sitting down and writing, please don’t let your editor in the room while you’re writing. You cannot write effective copy if you’re judging yourself the entire time that you’re writing. It’s almost like having two different parts of your personality, first you are just a writer and you let the words flow out of you and you’re not gonna judge.

Good professional copywriters write 20 headlines before choosing a final one. So don’t be afraid to just write and leave the editor outside. Sit down, go ahead and write, almost like a word dump journal. Then walk away, and you’re not going to look at it for at least 20 minutes.

When you come back as the editor, highlight only the most important bullet points and the most important sentences that you feel are what’s actually getting your point across.

You’re probably gonna find that 80 to 90% of what you wrote is completely unnecessary. Another thing I wanna say about the editor, as much as you can, bring the editor in as though they were your ideal customer.

If I’m the ideal customer, I only come to the content with one question in my mind, and that is: what’s in it for me. Editing with that perspective will help you eliminate a lot of unnecessary words. You might have to do that a couple of times.

It’s a learned skill, but the point is: write first, edit later.

EVERY PIECE OF COPY SHOULD HAVE A GOAL

You can help yourself with the writing and editing process by knowing what the goal of your copy is before you begin and while you edit.

Have you ever watched the behind-the-scenes of a movie and heard a director say something akin to, it was their favorite scene, but they had to cut it? I always wondered why they would cut a scene if they loved it so much? Because it’s not critical to the story! The same is true when it comes to copywriting.

Some things just don’t need to be there, we need to be willing to cut things out and this is why every single piece of copy needs to have a goal.

If SEO is the goal, then yes we do need a lot of words to fill the space and to put in keywords, and to be really optimized for Google and searchability. If you are writing an email subject line, the goal is different.

What is the action you want your reader to take? Knowing your goal and desired outcome or action will help you eliminate a lot of time wondering what the heck to write.


We’ve talked about a lot and Kelsey has some amazing resources for you:

How to Start and Grow An Email List

Three Copy Tricks to Triple Profits

Writing an Effective Instagram Bio

Other Links and Resources for you:

3 Must Read Copywriting Books for NON-Copywriters

Grab my FREE course and learn how to drop an entire work day a week!

Let’s Connect! Leah on Instagram

Other Podcast Episodes You Might Enjoy:

5 Times Your Productivity

Why You Need an End-of-Work Routine

[00:00:33] , perhaps one of the most intimidating aspects of being a business owner is knowing what to say, and what I mean by that is what to write. Copywriting can be so tricky and there are so many elements within our business that need it. Whether we’re talking about our Instagram bios, are newsletters, the words that we’re putting on our website, sales copy.

[00:00:59] All of it is built around copywriting, and if we can simplify copywriting, if we can have less of those moments where we’re just stuck and more of the moments where we can just. Pump it out and move on. The next thing, well, we are going to be doing a lot better balancing the busy. So today I am bringing in Kelsey, foremost, founder of Magic Words copywriting.

[00:01:22] She is an award-winning marketing expert who teaches entrepreneurs how to write words that sell without sounding. Salesy, which is what we all want. And she’s been featured in publications like Business Insider, refinery 29, glamor. She’s spoken at some of the top marketing conferences in the country like Inbound and South by Southwest, I mean like really amazing.

[00:01:43] So today she is coming on. She has created incredible courses, uh, that have helped. Thousands of entrepreneurs learn to write their own high converting copy, but her real mission is to help people find their true voice so that they feel deeply seen, heard, and empowered every time they need to talk about their business.

[00:02:03] Which I mean, yeah, we all want that. Plus it’s gonna help you make more money. So today, Without any more delay. We are gonna jump right into my interview with Kelsey, where I ask her all the things and get deep into how we can make our copywriting more effective. She gives some amazing tips, tricks, and even some exercises that we can do to really help us find the right words and get rid of all those extra busy ones that.

[00:02:32] Confusing, conflicting, or just making the customer leave. So let’s jump in.

[00:02:40] Kelli: Kelsey, I am so excited that you are here. Thank you for being on The Balancing Busy podcast. I 

[00:02:47] Kelsey: am thrilled to be here. Thank you for asking me. I just love, love, love speaking with other female entrepreneurs. It fills my soul, so thank you for the opportunity. . Oh, of 

[00:02:58] Kelli: course. And I agree. It is so powerful when we get to talk to each other and learn what’s going right, what’s going wrong, like realizing we don’t all have it together and leaning on each other’s strengths, which your strength is copywriting and this.

[00:03:16] Ugh. Like all the, all the excitement, all the happiness. Because copywriting really is one of the biggest things that gets entrepreneurs stuck. Yes. They have to write the newsletter, they have to write their Instagram file, they have to write the caption, they have to write an email response, they have to write their sales page, their website.

[00:03:34] They’re about me page, like all those things. I’m like, overwhelming. You’re quiet. Everybody’s like, Like, they’re like deep breaths. Um, it can be intimidating. Yes. So, so like, let’s just jump right in. Like how yes do we demystify, how do we make this go from intimidating to we feel ready, like 

[00:03:57] Kelsey: we’re empowered.

[00:03:58] Yes. First thing outta my mouth is gonna be, copywriting is a completely learnable skill. It is also a repeatable skill. So for anybody who maybe thinks they know what copy and copywriting are, I would love to just level set with a definition of copywriting. Cuz a lot of times we think copy and we just think, oh, it’s words.

[00:04:22] Right. But copy, the actual definition is anywhere that there are words that represent you, your brand or your business. So it’s not just writing in general. It’s not just verbal vomiting into the echo chamber of the internet. It’s really intentional words that are meant to show you in the most accurate, attractive light to your ideal customers.

[00:04:50] So that. A more grounded definition of what Copy. , yes, it’s the words. I love that everywhere that Lee mentioned. But really I want people to understand it’s just words that represent you, your brand or your business, and you have the power to adjust those words, not only to show yourself in the best light, but also.

[00:05:11] To be the most effective in getting people to take action. Which brings me to the definition uhhuh of copy writing. . Okay. I know you’re like, yes, yes. Which is so great. Yes. It’s a, you know, awesome for me. So we know what copy is. Copy writing. The actual definition is the art and science of using words to get a desired.

[00:05:36] To take a desired action. So what does that mean? Right? We are using the words, our copy, and we’re speaking in such a way that the person who already wants to pay us for the solution that we have, sees the words on the page and thinks, oh my God. It’s like she’s in my brain. Oh my God, you’re so clearly the expert on this thing.

[00:06:02] Can I please pay you to help me? And it’s art. And it’s science. So speaking to your original question of how do we demystify it, how do we make people feel more grounded and not as anxious when they sit down to write something for their business? I always say the art is just who you are. It’s just how you talk.

[00:06:26] It’s just how you show up in the world, how you feel the most grounded and authentic. That’s the. The science is where I come in. It is formulas, it is proven ways of speaking, proven sentence structures, proven, um, ways to lay out a webpage, proven trigger words that you can use as a framework, almost like a mad li.

[00:06:54] To plug the art in, you can use the science and get somebody to click that button to subscribe to that email list, to buy that program or that product. It’s art and it’s science, and once you know the art of who you are, and once you know the science of how to communicate that, , you’re, you’re done. You’re set for life.

[00:07:17] You never have to relearn it ever again. You learn it once. Once you know the copywriting strategies and formulas, you’ve got ’em. They don’t change. It is not an Instagram algorithm. It is so comforting to know if I just spend some time learning a little bit about how to think like a copywriter, I will never have to sit staring at that blinking cursor of death ever.

[00:07:45] Kelli: I love that. So the art, it makes me really think of your brand voice, right? Yes. Like the way that we sound, where we, we each know that. Actually, I’m gonna bring this to books because I think that’s maybe an easier way to understand this. If you have an author where you really love. The way that they write their style.

[00:08:06] That is their voice. That is their art. And some are very poetic in their descriptions and you know, it just sounds like poetry on the page, even though it is a novel and some people love that. Other people don’t. Other people are like, that does not resonate with me. Like, this is way too many adjectives and ARBs.

[00:08:26] Oh my goodness. . And they’re moving on. Right? Like it, we have different, different styles that we like our mm-hmm. . Our goal is to be ourselves, to authentically share our brand voice so that those who it does resonate will truly resonate. And those who it doesn’t. That’s okay. We can’t be. Everybody’s Does that, does that feel correct?

[00:08:47] Yes. 

[00:08:47] Kelsey: Okay. And let’s, let’s dial that in a little bit more, even to really solidify that point. Think of your brand voice as a magnet. Did you ever play with magnets when you were in school and there was like, uh, the positive and the negative side and like, yes. If you flipped it one way, it would attract other magnets to it.

[00:09:05] And if you flipped it the other way, the other magnets would shoot. , your brand voice is like a magnet. When you are really strong in your brand voice, it attracts exactly the right people to you. and at the same time repels people who don’t wanna pit you. So that is, it’s such a valuable tool to have in your toolkit, establishing it like a baseline.

[00:09:32] And also it prevents writer’s block, right? If we don’t know our brand voice, then that’s when we get stuck in that journey. Rollercoaster anxiety 

[00:09:43] Kelli: spiral. . Yeah. And I’m gonna add to that and just say for anyone who is newer on their entrepreneurial path and they’re like, why would I wanna repel anyone? I just want all the clients.

[00:09:55] You actually don’t just, you’re just gonna need to believe me on this one. But you do not want everybody, everybody comes with a whole lot of headache and heartache because our businesses are very tied to us and. And we put our heart and soul. And so we are emotionally charged when, when we get those really awful clients, uh, people who are just trying to extract everything out of you, they can at the lowest price.

[00:10:25] Those who, uh, aren’t really going to appreciate the work you put in. So you, you do not want everyone, you truly do want this, this negative and positive where you will be able to repel those people who are going to become the thorn in your side. Yes. And attract those people. Are those raving clients and customers who love you, love what you’ve done, they inspire and empower you to do even better work.

[00:10:51] And they go and talk about people, those, that’s who we’re trying to attract. 

[00:10:55] Kelsey: Yeah, and I also would love to say that there is proof in that pudding because I started out as a freelance copywriter helping hundreds of women start businesses, and I actually. Hundreds of results of what happened when people niched down.

[00:11:12] What happened when people got really specific about their brand voice? Those a hundred percent of the time, not even 99%, a hundred percent of the time, the people who niched down and got incredibly specific were the ones who were the most financially success. And the ones who were sort of wishy-washy and didn’t wanna alienate anybody, and were like, I can help whomever, everyone.

[00:11:39] Those were the people who burnt out like, yes, it’s mental health too. They burnt out. Yes, and they didn’t make as much money. So again, proof in the pudding. . 

[00:11:50] Kelli: Yes. Okay. So what are some examples of like truly nicheing down versus being broad? Like I want people to hear like very tangible, like this is a little more on the broad side.

[00:11:59] This was them nicheing down and this was very specific. I 

[00:12:03] Kelsey: actually just put an example of this on social media yesterday, so Oh, awesome. I. Yes. So I, um, I love working with coaches because I think that coaches, you know, I’m a mental health advocate just as much as I am a copywriting expert and educator.

[00:12:20] And so coaches to me are the most exciting. Um, Clients and students because I know that they wanna show up with a gift that they wanna give. I know that they wanna show up to help people and so often they suffer from exactly what you said of not wanting to alienate anybody cuz they wanna help everyone.

[00:12:40] It comes from a warm, wonderful, open-hearted place. So I’ll use an example of a coach that I worked with who came to me with some copy and she had a tagline that said, and I’m gonna try to remember it word for word. , it was, I empower women to live their best lives. Something like that. Mm-hmm. , which great.

[00:13:00] Sounds beautiful. Love that journey. Sounds beautiful. Yeah. But does it sound specific, like it’s so, I am a woman, 

[00:13:07] Kelli: but is it, is it detailed or does it kind of leave you in? Like, what does that 

[00:13:12] Kelsey: mean? Does that mean though? Yeah, . Right, exactly. And here’s, here is a tough love, truth bomb, nerdy statistic for you.

[00:13:20] So buckle up everybody. About five years ago, there was a study done that showed that we had about three seconds to capture someone’s attention, and they would make a decision within three seconds if we could help them with their problem or not. If the answer was yes, they would keep breathing. If the answer was no, they would click out never to look at our stuff again.

[00:13:43] They did that same study last year. We now have 0.3 seconds point. Seconds. So you gotta be so crystal freaking clear. You have to be a blinking neon sign where someone sees it and goes, that is exactly my problem. That means that this is exactly the person to solve it for me. So let’s go back to our example.

[00:14:11] I empower women to live their best lives. That’s not a blinking neon sign. . It doesn’t mean it’s bad, it just means it’s not specific and that probably not a lot of clients are gonna be really excited by that. We worked together, we dove deeper into who did she wanna help, where did she feel like she made the most impact?

[00:14:32] Who were her favorite clients? Who were the people coming to her saying, please let me pay you to help me. And nine times out of 10, it was overwhelmed. . So we said, okay, instead of saying, I help women, we’re gonna say, I help overwhelmed moms. Okay, what are these overwhelmed moms overwhelmed about? What is their specific pain point?

[00:14:54] What’s the number one thing you help them with? And nine times out of 10 it was, I believe, um, balancing their schedules and making time for themselves. So now, If I’m an overwhelmed mom who is feeling an identity crisis, like, oh my God, I’m just, I’m mommy all the time and I need some time for myself. I need to ground and figure out who I am so that I can show up as a mom and be better as a mom.

[00:15:26] I’m gonna work with that coach who says I help overwhelmed moms, reconnect with their identity and carve out time for themselves. I’m gonna choose that coach over, I empower women to live their best lives. Does that help? Does that example help of like, when you’re speaking to a pain point that’s specific way more people are going to say yes to you because it’s not a, maybe it’s a full body.

[00:15:53] Yes, 

[00:15:55] Kelli: absolutely. And I think we can look at this in a few different industries just to understand a little more, a little bit more. Mm-hmm. , if I mm-hmm. am, uh, let’s say a health coach, I. People lose weight. Okay, that’s great. But it is vague if I said I specifically help, um, moms, right? After having babies get back to their optimal, or I specifically help, uh, para menopause, or I specifically help women who have just gone through menopause get back to their right.

[00:16:27] Like now I instantly know if you’re the right person for me. Let’s take that into the medical field. If I need a. Yes. If I understand what my pain point is, I know which doctor I want. Is it that I’m having back problems? Is that I’m having, um, skin problems? Is it that I’m having leg problems? Right, right.

[00:16:47] Like I would go to a different specialist. Yes, they’re all doctors, but I’m not. Going to feel like I’m getting a lot of help going to the foot doctor if the problem is e n t, ear, nose, and throat. Right? Like Right. So the more specific we are, the more they’re like, yes, that’s the person I need and And that is that 

[00:17:09] Kelsey: power.

[00:17:10] Yes. And this is the psychology of why copywriting is so valuable is that when you use language that shows that you are an expert, People not only are gonna wanna pay you, they’re gonna wanna pay you more than the other person. So I Oh yes. Love. Absolutely. I love that example of the doctor. Right? So let’s, um, who’s a I I recently, um, I struggle with rosacea and I was looking for a dermatologist.

[00:17:37] I’m in a new city and so I have to find new doctors. So this example is, Really relevant to my life 

[00:17:43] Kelli: right now. You’re like, 

[00:17:44] Kelsey: oh, I’m speaking this right now. exactly did. I saw so many websites and I was hungry for a doctor, right. I actively wanted to pay someone to help me with my rosacea. . I saw so many dermatology clinics that like mentioned rosacea as like something that they treated, but all along with a bunch of other stuff, right?

[00:18:07] It was just, we don’t wanna alienate anybody. But when I found a rosacea specialist, even though she was way more expensive, it wasn’t even a question. I wanted to go to her because she was gonna help me with my specific pain point. It is the same across every. every industry. The more specific you can, you can be with who you help and what you help them with, the more people are gonna wanna come to you and the more you’re gonna be able to charge what you’re worth.

[00:18:38] Charge for your expertise. 

[00:18:40] Kelli: Absolutely. I love it. So, okay, so we’re now understanding and, and I feel like this is such an important place to start, so I’m so glad we covered this. Like we’re understanding the power. Know exactly who you’re trying to help. Mm-hmm. probably for most, most people listening get even more specific than you thought.

[00:18:57] Yeah. Like you were saying, I’m helping women. Okay. What kind of women? Uh, busy women. Okay. What kind of busy women? Right. Like I know that, that my, my favorite is helping overwhelmed work from. moms? Yes. Okay. They are entrepreneurs who work from home. They’ve been doing it for two to three years or longer.

[00:19:18] They’ve had that success and now they’re like, I never thought about like, how to make this work. Yeah. So now they’re feeling like they’re a slave to their business, their mm-hmm. family’s always frustrated cause they’re not spending enough time in their business or with them. Mm-hmm. , the business is frustrated because there’s always more that needs to be done.

[00:19:36] And I help them come in and build the systems and the, the boundaries and the automations and the workflows and the checklists and all the things that make it all start working well so that they feel like that confident entrepreneur they dreamed of. Yes. Instead of. Faux fake, uh, yes. Entrepreneur that, that they have been feeling like, right?

[00:19:53] So, right. So, okay, so we get this down. We know who we’re trying to help. Now we have to write the words that make them want to, to choose us. Yes. And there we know that there’s already power in speaking to a very specific problem. But then how do we take that further and use our words to get someone to absolutely want to.

[00:20:17] action, whether that is clicking that follow button or the buy now button, or just going past the subject line and like opening our emails and reading ’em and taking action and Yeah. Actually, you know, utilizing the CTAs, we’re placing all over CTAs call to action for anyone who’s like, wait, tell me the acronym.

[00:20:36] Mm-hmm. . So, so like, how do we get them? Yes. How do we get our words 

[00:20:40] Kelsey: to have more. . Okay, so first thing I’m gonna say is I am betting a lot of you are feeling overwhelmed hearing all of that, and I wanna call that out immediately and just reground you and say again, it’s totally doable, it’s totally learnable and it’s totally repeatable.

[00:21:00] I like to liken when someone starts out learning how to write their own high converting copy to working on a puzzle. My family loves working on puzzles at Christmas. It’s like a tradition of ours. We get 500 pieces and at first it’s just this big jumble, right? But we have all of pieces, but we start with the framework.

[00:21:19] We do the edges first, and then we start to focus on different areas. Copywriting’s the same. , there are the frameworks and the edges, and then there are different sections of our business where we can start to apply different formulas and different strategies that use words to move people towards those actions.

[00:21:42] So if you’re feeling overwhelmed, It’s totally okay. Take a deep breath. We’re just gonna go through a few examples and there are so many more things you can do and I’m happy to help you with that. We’re gonna talk about where you can find me and learn from me later, but we’re gonna start with those edge pieces, right?

[00:22:04] So I like to say the best place for an entrepreneur to. is with their value proposition. Your value proposition is the number one thing you do or sell that your competition doesn’t offer or offer in the same way that your ideal client wants. Again, we’ll use the rosacea thing cuz it’s just, it’s easy to use that as a.

[00:22:31] So your ideal client is hungry for help with her rosacea, and you are a dermatologist who really loves specializing in helping H women heal from rosacea. And we are going to talk about your value proposition. It’s, first of all, the number one thing. You do or sell. So say you’re like, but Kelsey, but Lee, I do like five things.

[00:22:57] I have courses, I have masterminds, I have, you know, um, a diet program, whatever it is. That’s great. What’s the number one thing you do or sell? What is your number one money maker and or what is the number one thing you wish was your money maker? It’s the number one thing you do or sell. Uh, that your clients actually want, like, who are your ideal people and that your competition doesn’t offer or you offer it in a different way.

[00:23:28] Once you understand, you fill in those blanks of what your value proposition is. Almost everything else flows from there. It’s like clicking that first domino in the train and then it’s, and it just flows out of you. But until you understand what the number one thing is that you do or sell that your ideal audience wants, that your competition doesn’t offer or doesn’t offer in the same way, until you understand that you can’t move forward with copywriting.

[00:24:01] So I always recommend people start there. Is that helpful? . Yeah. 

[00:24:06] Kelli: So, so they have to know what it is that is their primary offer. Mm-hmm. and, and, and you know, as you said, that people want it. Mm-hmm. . So let’s touch on that really quick. Mm-hmm. , how do you verify that this is a viable offering? 

[00:24:24] Kelsey: Love that. Okay, so I love to do what’s called review mining.

[00:24:30] If you’ve been in business for a couple of years, you can mine your own reviews. If you’re new to business, or even if you’ve been in business and you just haven’t looked in a while, go to the reviews of your competition, your most direct competition, testimonials, reviews, et c. . Chances are, and when I say mining, I mean like, uh, the dwarves in, in seven, um, in the Seven Dwarves in Snow White.

[00:24:54] Hi Ho. Hi ho. They’re picking, they’re mining for diamonds and gold, right? So you are mining reviews for the diamonds, for the gold. So you look at these reviews and chances are you’re gonna start to see the problems that people came with, that they got. By you or by your competition? So for me personally, I’ll use myself as an example.

[00:25:17] Um, when I was looking at reviews and testimonials, I noticed that my, my open rates of my emails increased from X to Y. was something that repeated over and over. That’s something I can verify. I can use my own reviews to verify this is something people want ditto with. Um, I finally feel like or people are finally replying to me.

[00:25:41] On social media, they’re actually DMing me. That was another repeatable one where I was like, okay, this is something I can verify that my course is helping them with this. Um, same deal with, I finally feel like I’m not verbal vomiting. , or I finally feel like I’m not a deer in the headlights staring at the blinking cursor of death or something like that.

[00:26:04] Those are all pain points that are present repeatedly, not just in my testimonials, but in my competition’s testimonials. So if you’re struggling with, how do I verify what my ideal person wants? Look at what they tell you. They. Look at what they tell you was great for them. Look at negative Yelp reviews and see what they didn’t like about people like you.

[00:26:30] It’s so valuable to literally take the words out of your ideal customer’s mouth and use it in your own copy. Hmm. 

[00:26:39] Kelli: So good. And, and if anybody’s like, I’m brand new, I don’t even know who my competition is, all of that, go to Amazon and search books that are based on your topic. And go read those reviews.

[00:26:52] Yes. And then that would be another great place that you can try to find, if you’re like, ah, I want those places I couldn’t find what I need. Book reviews on your very specific niche topic is gonna help you pull out those nuggets as well. Oh, that is so, so good. I love that. Okay, so, so I believe that you are suggesting, and I want to have you confirm it mm-hmm.

[00:27:15] that we can use and that there is great power in using. our ideal customers own language. Yes. Like instead of trying to figure out the perfect way for us to say it, let’s just say it the exact way that they’re saying it, because that’s gonna 

[00:27:32] Kelsey: resonate. Absolutely. So here are some examples. I love examples.

[00:27:37] I love teaching with examples. I think me Too, the most sense, especially with copywriting because. Cool, cool. Love the formula. What does it mean? What does it look like, right? Yes. Using your ideal customer’s language. People who’ve already paid you are your ideal customers.

[00:27:53] They already gave you money, right? Or people who have paid. Competition like you are your ideal customers. They’ve already given money, um, for a solution. So doing that review mining, step one, great, great place to start. Step two, paint the picture of the before and after for them using words. I love doing this exercise.

[00:28:16] give me, and it doesn’t have to be what actually goes up on your website, but just as an exercise, think what are four to six bullet points of what my ideal customer is struggling with right now? What do they wish was different about their day-to-day life? Now that’s the before, right? Than after working with.

[00:28:37] don’t be surprised when and answer those four to six bullet points with your solution and what their life is going to look like, how it’s going to be different. So here’s an example. I’ve used the, the example of staring at the blinking cursor of death, right? So that might be a before. Are you struggling every time you sit down to the computer staring at the blinking cursor of death, not knowing what to say to your email.

[00:29:04] the after imagine sitting down and feeling totally confident that the right words are going to pour out of you so that you can send emails consistently that will actually convert. That’s the before and after. If you do that four to six times, that exercise alone is really gonna help you understand not just what you do and the like, the problems that you solve, but.

[00:29:31] How you want your ideal customer to feel when they land on that website or when they see that post or that email come in their inbox. It’s all about painting the picture. Do you see yourself in this before picture? Great. Would you like to see yourself in this after picture? Great. I can help with that.

[00:29:50] And here’s how, and here’s the button that you click for me to help you. ? Yes. 

[00:29:55] Kelli: Oh, I love it. Okay. So. Where, where is the best place to start? If we’re looking at. at, you know, they’re, they’re saying, Kelsey, Leah, like, I have been trying to write the copy. I’ve been trying to do this for so long. And, and I get, I get overwhelmed and I get stuck.

[00:30:16] And, and so they’re gonna do these exercises. They’re like, okay, I am gonna get clear on what it is I’m offering, who I’m offering it too. Mm-hmm. , uh, my brand voice. And that just means their personality, right? Mm-hmm. , some people are cheeky, some people come across super professional. and just like different authors resonate with different people.

[00:30:38] So do we resonate with different people? They’re gonna do the exercise and they’re gonna go and find these, these. Nuggets that they can extract of exactly what customers that, that they would love to attract or that they already have attract, are attracted, are saying, here is the solution I got. Here’s where I was, here’s where I am now.

[00:30:57] And then they’re going to do their own exercise of, here are the, they can probably start with, here are the, the four promises that my offering is, is providing. And then take that and say, okay, now what were the four pain points associated? And then write that into the four to six. results that they’re going to get.

[00:31:14] So they’ve, they’ve done those things now as they’re going through and trying to start writing, uh, any piece of content. Mm-hmm. , is there anything else that they should be thinking about and totally aware of that are just simple, quick tip tricks, tips and tricks that are going to, are going to make them more effective?

[00:31:35] Kelsey: Again, if you’re feeling overwhelmed, it’s totally okay. These are all just suggestions. Take what works for you, throw away what doesn’t. Um, and I’ll also just say, shameless plug, if this is something that you wanna learn once and for all, I have a signature course called Copy Class. There’s a link in the show notes.

[00:31:54] You can learn all of this and have all of your writing done once and for all, and have a brand voice done once and for all. If that’s something that’s interesting to. Check out the show notes. Check out copy class. For this conversation though, couple more just. Sound bites of what can you do right now?

[00:32:11] Right? First thing I’m gonna tell you is , um, this is a writer joke that Ernest Hemingway said, and I don’t recommend drinking while writing, but he has this quote, right? Drunk Edits sober. And that always made me laugh. And what I got from that was, don’t write drunk, but. Don’t let your editor in the room while you’re writing.

[00:32:37] You cannot write effective copy if you’re judging yourself the entire time that you’re writing. It’s almost like having two different parts of your personality understand, you know what? I know I’m gonna come back to this and I’m gonna edit this, but right now I’m just a writer and I’m gonna let the words flow out of me and I’m not gonna judge.

[00:32:59] Right. Um, good professional copywriters write 20 headlines before choosing a final one. I do that for every headline. Yes. So if that gives you any about us in a training mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like the first thing that you write is not gonna be the thing that goes up on your page. So leave the editor outside.

[00:33:18] Leave judgey mc judged your face outside and just. Don’t, don’t edit yourself while you’re writing. Sit down, go ahead and verbal vomit. Go ahead and overwrite. Go ahead and almost like word dump journal. Then you’re gonna walk away and you’re not gonna look at it for at least 20 minutes. That’s part of the assignment.

[00:33:43] Okay? When you come. As the editor, what you’re gonna do, and you can either physically do this by printing this out and using a physical highlighter. That’s what I do. I really like it. Um, or you can do it on your computer screen. Highlight only the most important bullet points, only the most important sentences.

[00:34:06] That you feel are what’s actually getting your point across, you’re probably gonna find that 80 to 90% of what you wrote is completely unnecessary. Another thing I wanna say about the editor, as much as you can, bring the editor in as though they were your ideal customer. If I’m the, if I’m the ideal customer, I’m only, I only come to the content with one question in my mind, and that is what’s in it for me.

[00:34:35] It’s great that you’ve got a degree. It’s great that whatever, like happy for you X, Y, z person who wrote this website, but like, I wanna know if you can help me or not. And if you’re not telling me how you can help me, then I’m out. So, Come back to that copy, that verbal vomit, highlight the most important points, and extract those most important points.

[00:34:59] And that is what you actually put out into the world. And you might have to do that a couple of times. You know, it’s a learned skill. Like I said, it’s okay to tweak it, but point being, write first, edit later when the editor comes in. Cut probably 80 to 90% of what you wrote. Kill your darling. It’s, it’s gonna be better in the long run.

[00:35:24] Kelli: I love that. I love the idea of coming in as your ideal client. Mm-hmm. in the editing room, like that’s, who’s editing? That is so good. Mm-hmm. , I’ve talked a lot when, when I’ve taught and talked about, um, copywriting stuff. Within coaching. You hear, you’re watching the behind the scenes of a movie and you hear the editor.

[00:35:45] Oh, it was my absolute favorite scene, but I had to cut it and Oh yeah. I remember for a long time thinking if it was your favorite scene, why would you cut it then? But it did. The more story. Exactly. The more that you study story and ultimately copywriting is. Is telling short, compelling stories that, that get someone to take action.

[00:36:08] The more that you study this, they have their theme there. Is this line coming through this, the, the, the entire film or, or website or whatever we’re talking about. And you have to be willing to cut what takes away from that theme, what takes away from the storyline? And if it takes away, if it distracts them, then for the sake of the story or for the sake of the outcome that we mm-hmm.

[00:36:33] as business owners want, we have to be willing to cut. And so that, that was what was going through my mind as she said that. And, and I couldn’t agree more. So would you agree and. that less is better, especially as we’re seeing Yes. You know, attention spans go from three seconds to 0.3 seconds. I read that same research and was like, oh, not wild.

[00:36:54] Kelsey: I know, 

[00:36:54] Kelli: yes. Wild. That, that it’s less is better. You know, we are not in the era of like just writing novels. People don’t have time. They don’t want to give you their time. They want fast, concise. Give it to me. Tell me what you can do for me. . So that almost in a way makes it feel maybe a little less intimidating because it’s like totally, you don’t have to write and write and write like you just, it less words on a page is better.

[00:37:19] It’s, we’re not back in the day where it’s like, try to fill, you know, for your SEO purposes, like thousands and thousands of words, like, yeah, you’re gonna lose 

[00:37:28] Kelsey: that. Totally. Well, I think that you raise a really important point, which. Every single piece of copy should have a goal in mind. So if SEO is your goal, then great.

[00:37:43] Put that on your blog, like, Totally. Yes. How a really long blog post with all of those keywords. Um, put that right. A longer social media caption. There’s, there’s search engine optimization for every single platform. Um, if, if that is your goal, great. , but it should go in the correct place. If speaking to an ideal customer and getting them to subscribe to your email list is your goal, which by the way should be the goal of all websites, absolutely , , then what is the most efficient way that you can show you’re in the right place?

[00:38:24] I am the person to help you. Click here, to continue this convers. Click here to get on the email list. Click here for a consultation, click here for a freebie, whatever it. , like get someone to take that initial giving, giving you their email list is, or their email address is the goal. So if that is the goal, what is the fastest, most effective way that you can do that?

[00:38:51] And again, this is totally learnable. . It is totally okay. If you’re like, oh my God, I don’t know how to write an entire website that does that. I promise you it’s doable. It’s learnable. And even the pros, like it takes, it takes a little bit of time to tweak it until it’s right, but man, when it’s right, it.

[00:39:12] Works. It works, I promise you. Yes. There’s again, nerdy statistic businesses that invest in their copy see 300% more conversions than businesses that don’t. So let’s triple the results just by changing the words on your website. Like it can feel so intimidating, but the most incredible reward is at the end of that rainbow. . 

[00:39:38] Kelli: Oh, absolutely. So we talked about so many different things, but you have some amazing free resources and we will link to everything in the, in the show notes.

[00:39:46] But you have a free resource on how to start and grow an email list, uh, those three copy tricks to triple profits and writing an effective Instagram bio, which I know can, in and of itself, those, you know, you have such. Characters and it’s like, what do I say? So I want to make sure I mention that cause I think those are amazing.

[00:40:05] And we will of course link to all those to make sure that people can grab them, which is so cool. So my final just lightning question for you is if you could convince a busy woman to do only one thing to feel more balanced, what would it be? 

[00:40:23] Kelsey: If I could convince a busy woman to do one thing to be more balanced.

[00:40:29] it would be to put some copywriting formulas in her toolkit because sometimes we don’t feel inspired or particularly creative. And if you’re anything like me, when I’m in a place of busyness and overwhelm, the last thing I wanna do is like sit down and have to think of something to say. having a arsenal of formulas or prompts that I can just start answering without having to think about it or come up with something.

[00:41:07] That would be the number one thing that I would recommend. Cuz I think, as you mentioned at the beginning of the conversation, it’s such a hangup. Um, so many people just feel like, I don’t know what to say, so I’m just not gonna say anything. Or I’m gonna. I’m gonna talk over, I’m gonna just verbal vomit.

[00:41:25] Yes. And because I don’t feel heard. Heard they’re or Yes. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:41:28] Kelli: yeah. Or they’re oversharing and, and they’re overwhelming people. But, but something on that, you know, on the spectrum is, is happening. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:41:36] Kelsey: Yeah, work within the rhythms of your life, you know? Yes. Sometimes I feel really inspired and really creative, and I write a couple of blog posts and have some ideas for podcast episodes and maybe even a way to tweak a product or a class that I have and like, that’s great.

[00:41:55] I roll with that, but I don’t release it at the exact same time that I think of it. I kind of save it and I, I have that in my back pocket. For the day. I know that’s coming when Yes, I’m super, super burnt down. When you’re not feeling it. Yeah, when I’m not feeling it. Yes. And then, oh my God, I’m so grateful.

[00:42:15] I recorded that podcast episode a month ago and I re-wrote the show notes. I can just hit post today. . 

[00:42:21] Kelli: Yes. Yeah, a hundred percent. I am such a fan and such a believer in that. Oh, thank you so much. This has been so great. I’m so excited for people to just take this to the next step by going and accessing your amazing resources.

[00:42:35] Uh, we’ll make sure to link for everyone so that they can find you. It has been a pleasure, so thank 

[00:42:41] Kelsey: you. Thank you so much. This was great.

[00:42:45] I love talking about copywriting. I have read several super, super nerdy books about copywriting. I have taken a lot of copywriting courses and I know that. Our ability to write words that compel people to take action, it makes a really big difference in our bank account. So I hope you really enjoyed this.

[00:43:06] I wanna just share with you the biggest takeaway for me is I am gonna go back and do some mining again. I’m gonna go find my gold nuggets and look. For what people have said in my past testimonials, I’m gonna go look on some Amazon reviews for books that are around my topics. I’m gonna go look, I’m gonna go look all over the place.

[00:43:24] I’m gonna go try to mine those nuggets because there is so much power in being able to concisely say, Here is the problem you’re dealing with in language that they themselves would use. And then here’s how I can help you solve this problem. And the more clear we can get, the more we can just say that whether it is an Instagram bio and newsletter or sales copy, the easier it is for someone to make that decision that says, Yes, I want to hear more from them, whether that is clicking the follow, continuing to read the newsletter, or clicking that by now because they wanna learn what else you have to say.

[00:44:06] There is so much power in copywriting and it is one of those things that we absolutely can get better at. I have experienced that myself, and so I hope this was helpful. I hope there’s a nugget that you are taking from this, that you are gonna. Just one thing, one thing’s great. If we just take one thing after one thing, one by one, we can make a huge difference for our lives, for our businesses in balancing the busy.

[00:44:33] So pick your one thing, jump on, take some action, and let’s see what happens. 

[00:44:38] Thank you so much for listening to The Balancing Busy Podcast where we help you do less but better in all the areas of your life and your business. I’ll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening.

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